·When did you have the idea for ‘Discombobulated’?
I feel like the theme, just the significance of the word, to me it’s a lot of what’s going on now. This disjointedness and uncertainty…some days it feels like it’s going to be okay, but other days it feels like it’s going nowhere and we’re going to be here a long time. There’s uncertainty because we’re living it. The philosophy behind uncertainty in life is the unknown but now we know some things about the virus and the situation we’re living in. But because it’s evolving in such a drastic and uncertain way, it makes us feel even more uncertain because the uncertainty of the unknown is something we have to live with. But with this (pandemic) we have little hints of things—if we do this or we do that we’ll be okay, but with so many factors always changing we have this discombobulated feeling of living this upside-down lifestyle.
Using this media and getting used to it is interesting. It’s interesting to talk to and meet people and go about with social events through this media and it’s evolving. We’re trying to stay in touch with people and be safe. I teach and have to go into the studio and we have to wear masks. Sometimes I feel more comfortable teaching through Zoom because I find it a little bit safer. The studio offers a bigger space but you get this haunting feeling like you might be doing the wrong thing because we’re sweating and wearing these mask and trying to breathe and to dance, and maybe it’s better to stay at home. It’s a happy medium.
Was it already a project you intended to pursue or was it developed for this collaboration with Dr. Zhang?
I was already thinking of doing something. That film you saw with Ruth dancing… I was already thinking of doing something to do with how we’re feeling with this situation (the COVID-19 pandemic), so Ruirui came up with the idea to make it more substantial and have more people involved and maybe to expand my idea to bring more dancers into the project and to create a a piece that revolves around the situation we’re living today. Art always comes out of personal experience, I feel, so we’ll see what this will come out to be like.
How did Ruth Whitney get involved in this project?
Oh I’ve worked with her number of times. I’m always working with her, she’s one of those dancers who’s always willing experiment. I’ve known her for probably like 20 years and I’ve seen her evolve. She used to dance at the Boston Ballet School for a long time and then she graduated and was doing freelance work and we performed in a few events together when I was dancing as well, so I’ve been very closely involved with her dance career.
What makes this project unique to other projects you have done?
Well because we’re living it. We’re living this time ourselves. I’ve never done anything that compares to this because I’ve never lived anything that compares to this before.
How has COVID19 impacted the shows creation and rehearsal process, etc.?
We do meet in person and we’re going to get together with more dancers. I do feel I can choreograph in my own space and have people imitate me and mimic me or try to get the movement, but I would rather be in studio with people. It gives me a better understanding of the movement when I see it in person. There are many issues with doing this work through computers. Movement can get lost because of delays in the internet or the way music and movement sync. Even just talking sometimes the computer freezes. I don’t think it’s ever going to be perfectly refined, so for now I’m going to go to the studio and hopefully that’s the way it’s going to be. I think because of the situation I’m going to use five dancers rather than more, that way I can manage and work at different times with different groups and not have a whole bunch of people in one space. We’ll see.
What is the idea behind the show?
I’m trying to convey maybe situations that we are living today and how I can bring those situations into a show, into a piece, that are cohesive and that are not too cliché, you know. That there could be some way that it could be told through dance and people could see a side of it that might relate to how things are today or maybe they can relate personally to it, or maybe they can see it from afar and think “oh yeah, wow, that’s what going on “ or “I’m living that situation” or “I don’t really get what he’s trying to come across with.” To me the point is it’s a performance that will put you through a journey when you watch it. It will make you question. And to me, that’s…inquisition about what you’re seeing and what you’re living is important in life, no? To keep you wondering.
What is your creative process when choreographing original dances?
I think I use the music to try to motivate what I make happen with the dance steps. Usually if I have music I’m already committed to, I use that as a sketch of what I’m going to do, even if it’s not 100% how I wish it to be from beginning to end. Maybe there is movement in the music that is interesting to me, but I wish that maybe it would have something else that would make the link of what I’m trying to get across. If the music has a nice overall layout then I can sketch the movement to suit the idea that I have with whatever plot that I have in mind. You know, it’s a good link to have a good piece of music because then it gives me a real sketch of where I need to start, where I need to be in the middle, and how to finish the piece. There are people who have an idea and music becomes after thought, which is possible. Creation has many ways to go about, I think it’s individuals that can help develop the story, too. If you have individuals who have certain movement qualities or big personalities, but for me it’s really the music that motivates the story.
For this particular project did you feel this uncertainty and want to create the show or did you hear a piece of music that inspired you? How did you first come up with the idea?
I make videos in my house and I post a few on Facebook. I’ll be at home and I’ll be doing something and hear a piece of music that inspires me, a movement that I feel like is making me feel like the way I feel right now because of what’s going on. I’ll video tape myself doing some silly stuff. Right now because we’re creating a piece that I want to be a little bit more substantial, not just one thing, I want to make a few movements out of this idea so I do seek for music that has this dark side and is motivating. Actually to tell you the truth I just found the end of the piece. It is a religious theme of music and it gives this sense of hope and rebirth and rejoice, you know. So that’s what I’m saying to you—I find this piece of music and I go “that would be a good middle piece for after doing this” and then I kind of get the puzzle going musically and then when I’ve choreographed all the music then I can see it and go “ok, maybe the puzzle wasn’t really well arranged, so maybe I should put this piece over here…that goes better with this piece over here.”
So I’m telling you it’s going to be the end, but maybe before I’m done it will be the first piece. But at least it gives me the building blocks of ideas musically.
I find it amusing, it’s even more interesting to me when I have a story to create instead of just a piece, but of course the story evolves as I go along in the process of making the steps. It’s like cooking. When you cook something and you know what you’re going to make, maybe you’re going to make a lasagna. You have the right recipe, you have the ingredients you’re going to put in there, and when you start making it you say “maybe I’ll put a little bit more basil here, or maybe I should put a little more sauce, put pesto on this side of the lasagna,” so it evolves. If you have cooked before, otherwise you better stick to the recipe, but because I choreographed a little before I like to do that. I try to have a recipe but then I try to modify it so eventually the meal will taste great and will be really different and people will know the secret to what it took to make it.
Have you always used dance as a means to express yourself and react to your surroundings?
It’s funny, I was just looking through these videos. I wish I could be an actor, you now. One of the things about dance that I love is that you have to express yourself through your body, but being able to speak out and move your body at the same time…The thing is every time I have to learn lines and say lines that are given to me I always get very nervous that I have to deliver them in a certain way or a certain manner. I’ve never taken acting so I don’t really know what it takes to be an actor. I mean, I learned acting in dance because you need to learn acting in dance, but it always has an element of movement. Acting can be done in many ways or forms, the subtleties of how you speak your lines, how you phrase your story, it’s almost like dance but because I don’t have that kind of training I use my natural instincts. Yeah, acting is something I wish I was more profound at.
How did you first get involved in ballet?
I used to live in Canada, and I had a girlfriend who used to dance jazz and I went to see her take class. Somehow I start taking jazz classes and then the place that they were giving these classes was a ballet studio but they used to provide like a local class for the public, so when I was taking these classes there was somebody there that was in the school who was training to be a professional dancer. They came to me and they said “it looks like you have the ability, would you be interested in trying to audition for the school?” I was like “sure!” You know, I was young and silly, so I did audition for the school and they actually took me in the ballet school. I started training when I was still just a freshman in high school, so I started late but I was always athletically involved, always in sports. I used to do soccer, baseball, so I was very physically involved in sports, so dance to me was the whipping cream in the cake because I was physically inclined, and I always had this urge to do something in sports. When dance was presented to me I felt that it had the expressing aspect of movement and it became clear to me that it was something I felt very comfortable pursuing.
As I was dancing and going to school I started to depart myself from the friends I used to hang out with because I was starting to do ballet and at that point it became like really sketchy. I would do ballet and it was like an undercover activity. People used to ask me “so where are you going?” “oh I’m going to do something with my parents,” so I kept it very quiet for a long time from my friends just because I didn’t want to have to explain to them and at the time when I started dancing it wasn’t so free to be a male dancer, you know. I guess I used to hang out with a crowd of people that were not very artistically inclined, and so the idea that I would be doing something along those lines wasn’t very well looked at.
Were your parents supportive when you started?
Well, not at first. They just thought it was a trend that I was just going through, a period of experimenting with something like when I was young I used to play all the sports in the world and I used to always fall into this area and do this and do that, so they thought it was just another cycle of my development. And little did they know that that was the one, they probably believed it was going to be the least but it became the most important aspect of my interests.
How long did you hide your dancing from your friends?
I was always trying to work my way out of the conversation. It would always be something I had to do and if someone ever asked me specifically I would always find a way to not be clear, but also be clear enough that they wouldn’t even suspect I was dancing. I would maybe even use the story that I would go with my girlfriend to take her to the dance classes that she was taking, or I was doing something with my family, or I was doing something with my girlfriend. I guess time went by and also once I graduated high school and I continued dancing, because I was dancing my friendship with people that I felt I had to keep this secret from became shaded. They were not strong bonds anymore because I felt like I started to lose interest in that other aspect of my life, and I wanted to consume myself in more. I also started making friends in the art world and the dance world, so I built another group of friends that were away from what I used to do. You start to disconnect slowly and then eventually, when I started to get more into the profession, and I would meet people that I knew from before they were amused about the fact that I was doing this. They were like, “when the heck did you start doing this?” I mean I knew when I started, when I was doing it, but they had no clue. But I’ve talked to people who knew me from the past, even relatives of mine who…Of course my family never discussed this with my other family members—“here’s my son he’s taking ballet now” but I mean, things happen.
I never felt my parents thought negatively about me doing it, they just thought it was something that I was going through. And I remember because at one point I went to South America on a tour with a company I was dancing with and my parents were in Venezuela at the time. I went all the way around South America— Argentina, Chile, Peru, Colombia, Brazil—and on the way back from the tour we stopped in Venezuela and we danced in the biggest theater in Caracas and we were staying in the nicest hotel next to the theater. They came to see all the shows where I was performing, and at the time I was a soloist dancer in the company and I was being featured in the shows. For them to actually see me was the first time they really saw me on the stage with a company. It was like they were so proud, and all my friends came to our house in Venezuela. For me it was the pinnacle of my life in the arts because my parents finally embraced what I had chosen to do and actually it was okay. I made something out of what I wanted to do and they were proud of it.
So yeah, it was a big journey and I guess, too, that is why I’m so passionate and believe in what I do that sometimes it doesn’t have to be easy. Not that it was really difficult for me, I’m not saying that I had to suffer and I’m not saying I had to walk with hot potatoes in my hands, I don’t have any stories like that to tell you, but it was challenging. I know that you guys nowadays, you know, when you’re going to school and you’re trying to do the right thing and trying to find something that you really are good at. Be good at whatever you do because you love to do it and not just because it’s a job. It’s important that you keep experimenting and finding things that really can make your heart palpitate at a different beat.
Do you have a preference between performing, choreographing, or teaching?
You know, I love teaching now, I do. I enjoy seeing people and I think what I teach has all the elements of what I like as a choreographer and a dancer. I guess I like to continue to be the messenger—I feel like I’m a messenger of what I have learned from other people who have taught me. The choreography, to me, is just an evolution of me as a teacher and a dancer so they all really play a big role. But teaching is very dear to me because it is such an amazing thing to do to make people become passionate about something. I qualify myself as being that kind of teacher. You know there are many teachers that do different things and they plant a different seed in your ideas of how you want to develop. Some teachers give you a lot of information, some people give you a lot of ways to become a better student so that you can become a better person in terms of what you’re going to do.
The teachers, they have to have information, but it’s how they provide it to you that makes you better at what you want to do. I think that me as a teacher in dance, I like to make people really find their passion for what they are doing. Find passion because when you find the passion in what you’re doing and you make people see why you need to be passionate, then it becomes an easy task to do what you want to do because you don’t have to make it a ritual of “oh my God, I have to do this now,” it’s more like “oh, I want to do this now!” It’s not a pain it’s a pleasure.
So would you say you’re passionate about teaching?
I am passionate and I like to pass that on to my students.
Do you have a ballet that is a personal favorite?
Yes, I like this ballet it’s name is Onegin, the story of Onegin. I think there are many versions but the one particular ballet I love was choreographed by a famous choreographer, Cranko, John Cranko. He used to be a choreographer and director for the Stuttgart Ballet in Germany. That ballet is one of my favorite ballets. The music, the movement, the way he used movement to express the story. The music is beautiful and he has a lot of beautiful duets between Onegin and Tatiana. I don’t know if you know the story of Onegin. It’s about this young girl who falls in love with this guy who is a real tyrant. He thinks that she’s stupid, though. She falls in love with him and she writes him all these letters saying how much she’s in love with him and he’s very ruthless to her. At one point at a party she was at, he goes to her, and she had sent him a note expressing to him how much she loved him, and in the midst of this party he went up to her with this letter and put it in her face and ripped it and put it in her hand. He was a real pig, but the ballet evolves to the point where he falls in love with her afterward, but she had already met somebody else who she loved, so he comes for forgiveness and begs for her to come back to him, but then she writes a letter to him and puts it on his hands and rips it. It’s a very good ballet, it just has so much drama. You feel bad for the guy who was a pig because of how she behaves, but at the same time you wish they would’ve been together at the end and it’s like…it’s a romance.